Tuesday Aug 19, 2025
Getting it right from the start
In this episode, colleagues from the National Day Nurseries Association join Ofsted to discuss the report into the importance of the first two years of a child's life: Getting it right from the start: how early years practitioners work with babies and toddlers - GOV.UK
Briony Balsom
Hello everyone, and welcome to this edition of Ofsted Talks. I'm Bryony Balsam, and this time, we're focusing on early years, on 'Getting it right from the start, how early years practitioners work with babies and toddlers.' And indeed, that is the title of our recently released report. So the research explores how early years practitioners understand the Early Years Foundation Stage framework and apply it to the education and care of babies and toddlers. So we're talking up to two years. It draws largely on a series of visits to early years settings, a survey and some inspector focus groups. So joining us today, we have Fiona Bland, who is from the National Day Nurseries Association, Kiran Singh, who's one of Ofsted's Research and Evaluation leads and was involved in writing and producing the report. And we have Wendy Ratcliff, who is Ofsted's lead for early education. Hello, everybody. So Wendy, just to kick us off then, why did we produce the report?
Wendy Ratcliff
Really good question, and there's a bit of history there. So when we were doing our 'Best start in life research review 'series, one of the things that came out from that was that, we're aware that there's very little research out there around babies, around our youngest children. And I think that's you know, that that's really important for us at a time when the government are looking are increasing funding, there'll be more babies in settings from September in in terms of the childcare reforms. The other thing we know that those first two years lay those important foundations for all future learning, and that babies' development just needs to be encouraged, supported, and, you know, monitored by adults. It's so vitally important to get those first two years right.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, so I think the report starts out by saying what we know instinctively to be the case, that those first two years are really crucial to a child's development.
Briony Balsom
Why is it that they're so important? Could you tell us a little bit about what forms in that child in their first two years?
Wendy Ratcliff
Yeah, absolutely. So. If we think about we think, well, we think about the EYFS, for example, and we think about those educational programs and the primaries of learning. There's so much that needs to happen. What does happen in those first two years and the importance around you know, personal, social and emotional development, physical development, communication and language, we think of those important interactions, and I think one of the key things for us is making sure we get that balance right between care and education, because whatever we do through those interactions, those routines with the youngest children, children are learning something, and that's really important.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's because we know it's so important that some of the examples in the report are really so wonderful. So there's a really evocative one of the the practitioner talking about sand in a really glorious way. And you can just feel the engagement with the child. Kiran, I'm going to come to you. Can you tell us a little bit about the methodology and what, what you looked at, who you spoke with to formulate the report?
Kiran Singh
Yeah, yeah, of course. It was really important for us, right from the outset of this project to capture as many voices as we could and really try to be as accessible as we could for the early years sector. And we know that not every nursery could take part. We know that not every practitioner could tell us something. So we tried to, we did a lot of different methods. We first of all, we looked at existing studies and literature on the topic, and we found that there wasn't really as much as there, you know, that there should be on babies that is specific to England. We also issued a national survey to all local authorities in England, and they then sent on the survey to all their registered providers. So in effect, we were giving every single practitioner in England a chance to respond to the survey. We didn't get every single practitioner respond, but we did get a large number of responses that we could actually use, so that that was really good. We visited nurseries, not ones that were attached to schools, and we also visited child minders, and we interviewed leaders and practitioners, and we held discussions with our own inspectors about the practice that they saw in the baby rooms. So we had a we had a big data set for this, and all of our findings we triangulated across the board.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, I mean, it's really expansive in the breadth of who you spoke to. So what about findings? What were the key findings? If you could draw those out for us.
Kiran Singh
We had a range of findings from this research, but they were all really underpinned by the notion that qualifications and experience both matter when it comes to high quality practice and the importance of high quality and relevant CPD for babies. So we saw lots of good examples that demonstrated like, really good understanding of the key person role in the baby room. And it was really endearing and encouraging to see that in the baby room, the baby room practitioners really understood how important this was for the babies. It was really important for them to get to know the baby and to get to know the families. And they understood that they were that link that would make that experience really, you know, really meaningful and good for babies. Our findings also supported that that high that the frequency and the quality of interaction between adults and children are are really critical from that for that quality provision from birth. And whilst I did tell you that our survey was national, it wasn't completely representative of the early years workforce or the wider population of England, and that's an important caveat. But alongside our visits data, it did show us both, both the visits data and their survey data did show us that more needs to be done to help practitioners actually understand their role in babies and toddlers physical development. Exactly what can practitioners do that helps to support them in that physical development. And then our survey also helped us to conclude that practitioners holding qualifications at or above level four, they were more likely to demonstrate a higher level of knowledge and understanding about high quality education and care from from birth than those who held a lower qualification. And we know that might be like a really obvious thing, but it's really important for us to actually see the data that shows us that. And you know, we can talk about that confidently. We also found that when we was talking to practitioners, there were some barriers that prevented, or like delayed, practitioners from actually delivering all those high quality interactions and the high quality education and care that we've talked about a lot in the report for babies. And the main barriers were around, like, misconceptions about educating and caring for babies. And those, those misconceptions were held by practitioners, and we and we know that also that there were some challenges in recruiting and retaining skilled and experienced practitioners that that really did affect, like the quality of baby room practice and leaders talked a lot about that a lot to us.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, yeah. And I really want to come back and explore some some of the detail in those key findings in a minute, and we can bring those, bring those to life, a little. But to come to you, Fiona, before we go into them in in great detail, so broadly did the report ring true for you in terms of what you know about the sector and practitioners?
Fiona Bland
It definitely reflects the things that we talk about and hear about through our members. We know that there are fantastic practitioners out there doing wonderful jobs, and it was great to read those lovely examples in the report. And we also hear about the challenges that they're having in terms of recruitment, and, you know, being able to get those high quality staff into the setting. So, yeah.
Briony Balsom
I mean, I suppose one of the questions that that came to me was looking at the report was about, how do we learn from this? How do we then cascade that into training so that we're improving practice? I mean, continuous development is presumably a particular area of challenge. How can we learn from this and build this into CPD and initial training?
Fiona Bland
There are lots of challenges, and CPD doesn't always mean formal training. It can take place in many ways, so providers have to be really creative in how they're doing that. If they're looking at a training course, it's thinking about, what are those skills that they want their staff to achieve, what they're looking for them to get, and then making sure that they do some research, looking at the training and the training company making sure that the course that they're looking for has that theory that underpins that practice, and then it gives them that practical application, so that when they go back to their setting, they're able to put that into their practice and see where, where that fits. If it isn't formal training, then you know, CPD can be done through a professional discussion. It can be done through peer observation, and so leaders need to be thinking about finding that person that can actually lead, that who's got the skills and the knowledge to support that practitioner to develop the skills that they've identified that they need.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, thanks. And presumably, there's something about building it into accepted practice in a setting's baby room as well. How? I don't know how frequently practice in a baby room is reviewed. Is this something that's done on a rolling basis? Fiona, or how does that? How does that work?
Fiona Bland
Reflective practice should be part of practitioners everyday experience. It's an ongoing process. Quality is a journey, not a destination, and practitioners will be evaluating even without realizing they're doing it when they're thinking about really informal everyday activities and routines and discussions they're having. So what went well in this activity? What might we want to change for next time? When they're adapting plans because babies interested have led into a different direction? So we know that babies and families are unique, so the approach has got to be unique as well, and that comes from looking at your practice, observing it, evaluating it, and thinking about the individual needs of the babies and families that are currently in their care.
Briony Balsom
So going back to these findings, there's some really interesting findings that you mentioned Kiran about physical development. What is it that leaders in the sector can do better to sort of understand their impact on child's physical development. I think it was indeed a third of the survey respondents believe that physical development in babies happens without that adult intervention. Wendy to come to you first, and I'm sure the others will have views as well. What's the issue here? What could be done better and what? What did we learn?
Wendy Ratcliff
Yeah, it's a really interesting one, isn't it? I think there is some ,you know, we know that that good physical development supports children in their playing, in gaining independence, having positive attitudes towards exercise and forming healthy habits and physical health later on in life. But we did observe some disconnect between some practitioners belief and their practice regarding physical development. So for example, some said that they encouraged physical activity, but also that they did not believe they could play a role in supporting physical development. So actually, there's, there's a need there for leaders and the sector as a whole to help practitioners understand that importance in their role in supporting physical development for babies and and for toddlers as well, and actually helping them through that that process.
Kiran Singh
I will just caveat again that our survey wasn't representative of the EY workforce or the England population at large. However, when we did triangulate that data with our visits, it did corroborate there were, there was, you know, there was enough evidence there to tell us that this is, this is the gist. This is a trend. This is something that is going on in the sector. I think the biggest thing that managers and leaders can do when we did see this is where, where there was that misconception, where there wasn't that, where there was that kind of mismatch between belief and practice. The managers and leaders were actually supporting practitioners to identify that, and they were reviewing that, and they were making them see that, and then they were providing that time and space and supervision for practitioners to actually meet those professional standards. I really liked when Fiona said that it was about them thinking creatively, because actually that when we saw really good practice, that's exactly what we were seeing. They were seeing that it wasn't necessarily that they would be able to buy a course, buy into a course, or do something online. It might be from learning somebody actually who's really, that's their forte, they're really good at that. And pairing them up with them, and having that regular discussion with them might actually just help them to see that we can actually align this, this belief in this practice. So I think that's probably the one of the biggest things that we that we saw, that we that could help to improve that.
Wendy Ratcliff
That modeling and that coaching is, is, is really important, isn't it? And, and there were some, yeah, we did see some examples of, you know, practitioners, modeling and narration. And there were some good examples coming through as well.
Fiona Bland
I think a really comprehensive induction is really key. You get those new staff into your setting and really being able to talk to them about what your baby room vision and ethos is all about, making sure they understand what an incredible privilege it is to be working and helping develop and shape babies brains. And then that should be followed up with regular support from the baby room leader the rest of the staff in the room should be really good role models, so that you're giving that new practitioner really strong foundation in understanding about the importance of that role and the joy that can be brought from that role too. Any misconceptions need to be addressed straight away, and really helping this member of staff understand why they're not correct, and giving them ways that they can improve their practice through that new understanding.
Briony Balsom
Yeah, thanks, Fiona. It's some really practical sort of steps in there.
Kiran Singh
What Fiona has just said really resonates with our early years workforce blog, because one of the things that we found in that was that it was really important to get that induction right, and the providers that were getting that induction right, were finding that there was less problems as they went on, because it really set that foundation, and like Fiona said, set that belief and set that motivation right from the start. And when you had that really strong induction, you were more likely to get a practitioner that was, you know, more well invested in that.
Briony Balsom
Just to go back to the key findings, Kiran, you also mentioned that we found that sometimes misconceptions about educating, educating and caring for babies and toddlers could be those barriers to delivering really high quality practice. Can you expand on that a little, and then maybe Fiona and Wendy could come in on how, how leaders can address those barriers?
Kiran Singh
We found sometimes that it's really important for practitioners to actually reflect on how they actually perceive themselves professionally, where we were finding that practitioners only saw themselves as carers, and that there was a range of misconceptions around that, or a range of beliefs around that. So it might be, for example, there was one belief where they felt that parents actually only wanted a caring environment. They wanted, like from a home to a home, or where we found that practitioners only saw themselves as an educator, especially, say, for example, where they were a child minder and they were really, they were really wanted to make sure that the perception wasn't simply that they were child minding in a home. And, you know, they didn't have the same professional standards as a nursery, for example, and they really wanted to make sure that educational perspective was there. We found that that was where there was a bit of lack. It was only when education and care was kind of combined. And actually you have to do both. You need to, you need to be an educated carer or a caring educator, to actually give a baby kind of the absolute you know, getting it right from the start is giving them the best start, is where both things are absolutely held in that perfect balance.
Briony Balsom
The tightrope between carer and educator and enveloping the two is just incredibly challenging, but that's what you need to deliver results, isn't it? Wendy Fiona, how can this be encouraged by leaders?
Wendy Ratcliff
I think one of those things there is, is that being able to think about those different those teaching opportunities, and if we think of routine times, for example, a routine time, you know, nappy changing time for a baby, I mean, that's part of their care. But absolutely, isn't that an amazing opportunity to teach those important interactions, that communication and language, singing, rhymes, there's, there's so much that can happen during that routine time that is a educating at the same time, and I think we saw some good examples of that as part of the visits that the inspectors went on. So there was an example where, in one setting, they were talking about carefully sequencing the order in which they do things for babies and toddlers, and how they build on what babies and toddlers already could do. You know that example of helping and showing, teaching babies and toddlers how to hold their spoon at meal times and moving that forward and so thinking about those, that journey that children need to go on and sequencing the curriculum, if you like.
Briony Balsom
Yes, and one of my other favorite examples was around the nappy changing and using vocabulary and talking through what they were doing. Fiona, over to you?
Fiona Bland
Yeah, I think it's really important that leaders are talking to staff about their responsibilities and their roles, so they're really clear about that they can use supervisions to make that link, as Wendy just talked about, between the care and the learning and and how that's that impacts on on children, and really having those discussions as a staff team, using a staff meeting to talk about that, so that there are no misconceptions. Everybody's understanding is consistent across the setting about the importance of both care and education.
Kiran Singh
I was just going to say that I actually went on the visit. I assisted on the visit with the with the nappy changing, example. And it was honestly a light bulb moment. And we could, when we talk to the practitioner after, we could really see that she'd got it. And as Fiona was saying, they'd had those open discussions there. There was that consistency. There was that knowing exactly what my role is, that responsibility was really, really clear.
Briony Balsom
One of the, one of the challenges that we pick out in the report is around recruiting and retaining staff and experienced practitioners, and how that directly impacts the quality of education and care for babies and toddlers. I'm going to open this up to everybody, because I'm sure everyone will have a view what, what are the challenges here and what can be done. I mean, we're we're expecting numbers to increase significantly, and so it's something we're going we're going to have to really face head on.
Wendy Ratcliff
We know that through some of the workforce blog that Kiran referred to this report also draws out that point about recruitment and retention and some of those struggles that settings are facing at the moment. And, you know, there that that kind of pull there as well, that, you know, increasing our youngest children being able to access settings from September and their funded places. So there's lots of pulls out there aren't there in terms of, you know, we need to make sure that, yeah, we're thinking about the practice in the in the baby room, so that we get it right. One of the things that managers, you know, they did tell us that there were high staff turnover, that difficulty in hiring qualified and experienced practitioners playing to the point that Kieran was talking about earlier in the key finding that you know, underpinning all of this report and the research is that it's the experience plus the knowledge and the qualification, where we get practice that is most effective.
Briony Balsom
Fiona, I'm going to come across to you.
Fiona Bland
Yeah, we hear from our members about the struggles that they have in terms of recruitment and particularly finding, you know, full and relevant level three qualified staff. We talk to them about being creative in terms of thinking about recruitment and where they're recruiting so that they are are widening their opportunity to find these people. We suggest that they link up with a local college and get in there to talk to people who are just about qualified, talk about the role, talk about the opportunities. So really thinking creatively about how they can do that, and if it, if it's not, then we talk to them about developing their own CPD programs that offer some flexible options so that there's any gaps in staff that they're recruiting they can, you know, support them to develop the skills that they need, and that might be through, you know, reading journals, writing a journal about what's working well and what those challenges might be. It can be things like listening to podcasts and professionals, or it might be a podcast a member of your team. You know, if you haven't got time for those one to one peer observations, getting podcasts recorded that talk about some of those key practice things. Peer observations, in house training, talking through staff meetings or nominating a buddy or a mentor that can really help support the skills that they need.
Briony Balsom
Or by working their way down the list of things you've suggested, because that's a really comprehensive, thorough, yeah, list of really creative, local solutions that people can be taking. Kiran?
Kiran Singh
I think, as a researcher, what was good for us to see is we had, well, we had a spectrum, and then, you know, there was extremes, and there was providers. Leaders were saying, we have this massive problem. We're finding it difficult to recruit staff. We're recruiting staff that we might not have done five years ago, that we know don't have the experience and qualifications, and then also with retention. You know, we have really good staff, and they've got all of this expertise, but, you know, they're only staying with us for a year and a half or two years and moving on. So for us it was, it was where leaders were saying, we have this major problem, but then on the other hand, and just kind of accepting that there was a problem, but then on the other hand, we were having leaders as as Fiona was saying, they were really kind of thinking quite creatively, and saying, We have a problem, but what exactly can we do about it to ensure that actually, this doesn't impact our babies as much as we can, as much as as possible? What can we do about it to make sure that it doesn't actually impact the the service and the delivery and the the high quality interactions that babies are getting? Leaders were kind of thinking about it in creative ways, and thinking about what they could actually do to kind of minimize as much detriment as much harm as possible.
Briony Balsom
Yeah. I mean, I'd really like to pick up on that. So from what Fiona said, there's lots of creative solutions to this that do require a lot of thought. There's a real acceptance and recognition of what's coming. But, I mean, how prepared do we feel that providers are for the childcare reforms that are coming?
Fiona Bland
Yeah, I think lots of providers will already be in the planning stage for increasing the number of babies that they take, and they'll be doing their capacity planning now to look at, you know, budgets, space requirements, qualifications, recruitment, any additional resources and that they might need, and staff training costs for if they need to fill gaps in in staff training. So I think a lot of providers will already be thinking about what we need to do, and they'll be in that capacity planning stage at the moment.
Wendy Ratcliff
So I think some of that we won't know until we start seeing that through our inspection, our inspection insights will help tell whether or not there's a successful roll out of increased places for children. And importantly, our inspectors will continue to be out there looking at, you know, what's it like to be a child typically in this setting. And hopefully, yes, settings are are getting ready for the change.
Briony Balsom
Yeah. I mean, it definitely sounds as though these changes are going to require some really thoughtful and responsive practice and leadership. I mean, our report shows that people are well equipped for this.
Wendy Ratcliff
I think that's really important to say. And actually one of the reasons for producing this report is to think about some of those, knowing those changes are coming, and hoping that this report is accessible for our early years sector, and hopefully they can take some comfort from it and also take some learning from it as well.
Briony Balsom
Absolutely, well, I can't think of a better place to leave it. Thank you, Kiran, Wendy and Fiona for joining today, and thanks to everyone for listening.
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