The best start in life: early years and Ofsted’s strategy

One of Ofsted's key strategic priorities acknowledges the relationship between early childhood experiences and a range of life outcomes, from educational success to well-being and good health. Read more here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ofsted-strategy-2022-to-2027

 

Shreena

I'm Shreena Kotecha, welcome everyone to the Ofsted podcast. This time we're talking about the best start in life. Just start with a few introductions first introduction is the new co host on the podcast Mark Leech, who is acting director strategy and engagement.

 

Mark Leech

Hello, I'm stepping into Chris Jones's shoes. And part of that is to join the podcast, which is very exciting. And we have two special guests from outside Ofsted. We have Molly Devlin, who is headteacher at ARK Start in West London.

 

Molly Devlin

Hi, thank you for having me today. I'm really excited to join you.

 

Shreena

And we have Helen Donohoe who is Chief Executive of PACEY, which stands for the professional association for childcare and early years.

 

Helen Donohoe

Hi, everyone, like Molly, I'm really delighted to be doing this.

 

Shreena

Last but not least, we have our very own Lee Owston who is Deputy Director for schools and early education. I mean, it's great topic for today, because the best start in life is one of our strategic priorities and Lee and I have had lots of lovely chats about it. Lee do you want to say a quick hello?

 

Lee Owston

Hello, everyone. Good to be here. Good to have a conversation with Helen and Molly as well.

 

Shreena

Shall we start with like a really sort of easy question in a way? Which is why do we think it's so important for children to have a high quality early education? Molly, do you want to start because you'd nodded enthusiastically?

 

Molly

I'm absolutely enthusiastic about this. I think there's no lack of evidence and research that early education is one of the most important things for children to have, so that they have the opportunity to thrive. But more than that, it's not just about education, right? It's about being able to fully participate in our democratic society. And it starts with our youngest children, actually, what we know is that it starts in the womb. And that early years is not the only factor in ensuring that children have the best start in life. But it is the factor that Helen and I have clearly chosen to be incredibly passionate about and dedicate our lives to.

 

Helen

Yeah, I mean, I fully endorse what Molly said, it's a universal understanding that the earlier we can, we can start with the next generation, the better. And as Molly said, it's not just about linguistics, or numeracy or those important things we need, but it's about the person, that that child and eventually that young person will become, and allowing them to make the get the best out of their life and and the best contribution to their communities. It's also about safety. Sometimes we forget, you know, I think in an ideal scenario, every child would get along to their kind of childcare, early education setting of choice and have a brilliant, fulfilled, experience. But sometimes it's it's around kind of let's see the children, let's let's be aware of the children in our communities and make sure we're keeping them safe as well.

 

Mark

I think we early on, we've kind of touched on something that has always interested me, when I was at nursery, way back in the 1970s, we called it play school. And that was a really interesting formulation of of words, right? Because it cuts to a debate that I think runs through early years and still runs through early years in the balance between children being taught children being educated and children playing and exploring their surroundings and sort of learning as they they go. And I just wanted to touch on that. Because I think it's interesting, obviously, for people who work in the sector, I think it's also something that parents think about when they're when they're looking at nurseries for their kids. What what what sort of environments is it going to be? How much are they going to learn and develop? And what sort of play experiences they're going to have? I wonder whether Helen and Molly, you wanted to talk a bit about a bit about that.

 

Molly

I think there's quite a controversial debate around sort of explicit facilitated teaching, and what is play and I think, really, they're so intertwined, that you can't pull them apart in any thoughtful way. Because what we know is that to use resources, well, thoughtfully, and with purpose, that actually the adult takes the role of the facilitator there. And there are some resources where you need to do more of that facilitation at the forefront. And there are some resources where you may do that facilitation in the middle, or when you can see that they're, you know, coming up to a problem. A great example of that is watercolour paints. So I was in one of our nurseries last week. And actually, it's really frustrating to use a watercolour paint set if you don't know the rules for how to use watercolours. If you don't know that you need a wet paintbrush, and actually, you probably need to make 10, 15 circles so that the paint is opaque enough to then be able to see it on your blank sheet of paper. That is a really unfulfilling resource, however, a little bit of teaching, facilitating at the beginning on how to use that resource successfully. It gives children more independence as they go through that play and practice of using those paints. And it's then that you might choose to step away and observe and think and if they have a problem with that you might jump in, or you might not. Because you might be interfering. And it's all about having really, really attuned practitioners who know their unique children, and can make thoughtful choices about now. Not now. If it is now, what are you going to do? How are you going to support them? Is it enough to just say, it is tricky? How could we solve this problem? Do you have any ideas?

 

Mark

That's really interesting. Thank you, Helen, do you?

 

Helen

Well, I think there's two things here. First of all, we devalue play. Let's remember, play is a wonderful thing in its own right. And we've become so prescriptive around what early education should be, notwithstanding the fact that we have a world class EYFS curriculum. I had a catch up with some colleagues in Singapore earlier today who want to learn from us and they basically plagiarised our curriculum. So, you know, it's, it's important to remember that we are world leaders in that, but we devalue play. And I think as part of that we just we take on a too narrow definition of education, because education is, is just everyday life, isn't it? You know, it's from the spectrum of getting up in the morning to doing an open university course. But I was at my eldest daughter's school graduation yesterday. 16 just finished her GCSEs, you know, at the other end of the spectrum, and every brilliant teacher that stood up from that from the person in charge of welfare through to the head teacher talked about lifelong learning. And this isn't where education stops. This is, you know, and there's exactly the same applies to to youngest children. And some of the children that will learn most are those that don't have that that privileged life outside the setting. And that, you know, they will learn to live, communicate, apply themselves, and give give themselves almost unconsciously the ability to take on the more elements of pedagogy further down the line.

 

Molly

And it doesn't stop. Right, exactly, because we know we gave our practitioners that opportunity to play. You know, as part of our PD, you're also playing with different ideas about how to interact with children, how to facilitate learning, we're constantly playing with ideas about how to change curriculum, to see what works well, and that is play-based learning, it might have slightly more structure around it. But we all have as adults, the freedom to play and try things out for the first time. And you know, we should be giving that opportunity and that freedom to our children.

 

Shreena

It's not just about ideas, either. I mean, I'm genuinely quite addicted to playing with my three year olds train set. It's just a pretty good piece of kit.

 

Lee

What we were saying earlier is the long running debate, isn't it? And so in terms of teaching play, what should early education look like? And actually, you know, I wrote a report a long time ago now in terms of Ofsted history called ‘Teaching and play a balancing act’ to try and ensure that we did have the debate, and we did try and get somewhere along that journey. And I think interesting what you just said there, Shreena, I think, often we have a debate about well, what do we mean by teaching and teaching can be a bit of a dirty word, sometimes in in some kind of settings, because it brings connotations of desks, and pencils and paper, and you know, that can be teaching. But that isn't the only definition of teaching. And I think sometimes it's easier to think about teachers not being the only people that can teach, because I think already Molly and Helen have used lots of other words, practitioners, we could use educators, we could say parents, you know, it's anybody that that allows us to, or helps us to learn on our on our journey, whether we're children or adults. And I'd say obviously, parents are a child's first educator, are educators. And they teach every day they just don't realise they're doing it, or they haven't got a particular qualification. None of us do  in terms of parenting, or teaching qualification. But essentially, I just boil it down to kind of interactions. And that's a very simplistic view, but it's whether, you know, is it an informal interaction? Is it a more formal interaction? Does it involve resources or not? Is it kind of incidental or is it is it planned? And ultimately, we always end up at the point of saying, it's what's needed in terms of, you know, what, what a child is interested in what it is that they need to learn next? And obviously, then finding the best way of that particular child or group of children learning whatever it is that we have have in mind for them? So I think, kind of essentially where where we all are with the debate, I don't think we ever have an argument about education is important or not, I think that is something that we're all kind of united on, we're not short of any research evidence to prove that point. But the interesting debate is, what are others see the purpose of early education being? I think that's where your question was going Shreena around, you know, so what is it the parents want? And actually it will be different depending on individual parents circumstances won’t it, and I think the more we can do is to unpick the importance of what happens in earlier education establishments, whether that's pre school, whether, that's nursery or reception classes in school, with parents, you know, it's not there's not something kind of hidden that they don't understand it is. It is what they're doing at home, it's just that in settings, we have more resources, we have people, people who are kind of framed in terms of the right kinds of interaction. But that doesn't mean that what parents are doing at home is, is wrong, or that or the wrong thing.

 

Molly

What I can say about the parents that we have in settings, and actually, every single parent that I've engaged with, is that they want the best for their children, and all parents that I have ever met, want their child to succeed. And if for them, that looks like more care than education, that's because they believe that that's what's right for their child. And I think that's just such a fantastic starting point, that you can work on parent engagement on parents support, and, you know, work alongside each unique family, because different families are coming into education at such different points. If you've had your own personal experiences with education, that have been negative, or very compliance based, and actually you find speaking to an educational professional to be quite intimidating, then we owe it to those families to give their children just as much access to high quality education, as families who are coming and going, ‘I know exactly what the developmental milestones are, I know what early learning goal is, I want my child to succeed and be really academic’. Right? So it's about having a really open door policy, I think, and being willing to meet people and conversations, making it really non judgmental, and, and asking, you know, what do you want for your child? What are your aspirations? How can we help you with that in a way that empowers parents to feel like the best parent that they can be, and that they can teach their child and that they can play an active part in that, rather than unnecessarily engaging them in a care versus education debate. They're not thinking about that. They're thinking about their child, and what they want for them.

 

Helen

I'm gonna challenge you on that a bit, though, Molly,

 

Molly

Go ahead!

 

Helen

They’re parents that are through your door.

 

Molly

And you know what, you're right. It's subconscious bias there, because those are the parents that I've engaged with. And they've chosen to send their child to a nursery. Yeah, yeah. You know, so there is always going to be that bias. And that is why I can only speak from my experience. Yeah.

 

Helen

Not just that – they sought out your really good provision, you're really, you know, top of the range provision, and that we have no sense. I used to be a parent governor at North Islington nursery school. And they did some fantastic work, we did some fantastic work around outreach and going out to communities that simply were not going anywhere near because that is perceived as a middle white middle class, baby yoga, etc, etc. And we did some brilliant work outreach we there was a lot, there was a kind of a time where we had lots of Somali refugees, and do some brilliant work with that community. But it didn't reach everybody by any means. But it was a really pro-active piece of work. And I just think we don't have a sense of those people that aren't, you know, the ones that are that see the value and want to engage in the value, whether it's care, whether it's pedagogy.

 

Mark

That's a really important point isn't I mean, I suppose it boils down childhood’s not a level playing field and different parents will have different approaches and continue to emphasise. And I think I think you see the government trying to do it emphasise the importance of getting children into into early education. But you're, you're right, Helen, how do we how do we reach out to people and demonstrate that it's for them, and there are going to be different circumstances? And of course, cost and other things come into it. And then of course, there's there's a decision to be made about, do they use a child minder, do they go for a nursery? And that's a different approach. And I don't know whether it's worth exploring that a little more. And you know, what sort of expectations we put in on childminders and on nurseries and how they differ, I mean, obviously, we can talk from an Ofsted point of view, but But more generally, Helen and Molly, what what you think about that.

 

Molly

Think in terms of the expectations that we have for our nurseries, it's about really working with our families, to help them understand what we are, what we do, how we can support their child, how we can support them as a family, while having I think realistic expectations about what different ratios mean, what different care looks like for different age groups, and the different things that we can reasonably expect of our practitioners and our workforce, knowing that they have a huge amount of responsibility, and then not necessarily being paid in line with teaching staff in schools. So really protecting our staff while prioritising the best things for our children. So you know, when we're thinking about workload, I know that many, many nurseries and many parents really enjoy constant regular photo observations of their children. But what we know is that that's really high workload. And actually, often that takes away from the lived experience of interactions in that room. So by setting those expectations really clearly from the forefront, about what we've prioritised to make sure our children have the best experience. Parents know what they're going to get coming through the door that they you know, they can buy into a vision, while also understanding that actually, they may not have this constant interaction, but that's for the best for their child.

 

Helen

In some ways. The more we try and make this tangible, the more we lose the value because I remember again this is personal experience, but I remember when we chose a childminder for my two daughters when they were little. I mean she she had a good Ofsted rating but that didn't really you know, as long as she was registered and good, it was fine. What she offered more was the chemistry when we went through that door. And the and the clear love she was able to give to the children she took care of. Didn't have the biggest house they had a two bedroom flat above a shop in where we lived. But we instantly knew and my daughters absolutely adored her. And she sort of became part of the family. And I think that's the that's the wider piece that we do in early years is that part of the family support. They're not just the children. Childminders, do offer, you know, they offer the education and the Ofsted rating means really is a value to them, and they really value it. But very often they do offer that kind of family support as well. Look, if Mum has financial difficulties looking for work, mental health, this really came to light during the pandemic. And that going the extra mile out of out of standard hours, overnight stays, respite care, particular help for children with development delay, post pandemic, which, you know, we know is is a huge issue, it's hard to quantify, it's hard to really kind of pin down the enormous value of colleagues in the sector.

 

Shreena

I was gonna ask something which is off on a slightly different track, which is partly inspired by my six year old who was very bitter when his free flow periods were reduced on year one, which is basically about the transition between early education and year one, education education, if you like, and what you think best practices around that, what you've seen works well?

 

Molly

It's up to schools to decide how they would like to deliver that national curriculum, right. And what we know, around pedagogy is that you can meet the same end points, but you can choose the how, you know how we support children to get there. And there are still many, many opportunities within that year when national curriculum to have more structured opportunities to play and investigate. Maps is a fantastic example. You know, when we're thinking about aerial maps, you can go on a treasure hunt, and create your own maps that replicate your school grounds. And you're able to do that in a really playful and joyful way, while still meeting those aerial map national curriculum statements. Another one is investigating with materials. I think, you know, it's very likely that Helen’s done the same as me, both Helen and I can remember very clearly sitting around that water tray and going oh, yeah, you're right. It's cardboard, so it has absorbed all the water and then sunk. Perhaps that's not the best material to make your you know, your boat out of, maybe we should try something different. And you're doing those same curriculum statements, but a little bit more depth than them. In the national curriculum in year one, there's every opportunity to build in those interactions, to find those playful moments, to support children with that transition, where they don't have that real kind of unreasonable, unjust feeling that those free flow opportunities have been taken away from them. That's not to say that play isn't a real skill. And I don't think that we can underestimate the difficulty of doing play well, all of the practitioners that run play based settings be that nurseries, reception classes in year one, you know, and in some schools where they choose to have more playful learning across Key Stage two, that takes a huge amount of skill. And it is not something that a school can choose to undertake, without a huge amount of professional development that goes alongside it to make sure that we're doing it in a really thoughtful way. But I think, you know, schools really can feel empowered to make those choices. As long as it's backed in the curriculum. It's considered around child development and they're making sure they're putting all of those steps in the way that we do in nurseries to make sure that our play is working through thoughtful thorough formative assessment.

 

Lee

I mean, all transition’s tricky, isn't it? Whatever age we’re talking about but particularly so because there is, and we've kind of acknowledged this over time, there is a disconnect between kind of the early years foundation stage framework, and then what the national curriculum says in year one. And strangely, they were never written at the same time, and they're never updated at the same time. So, one is always kind of ahead or behind the other in terms of, you know, the expectations. So there is, there is some overlap and repetition, particularly in particularly in year one. Our position is obviously, as I alluded to earlier, that as long as you are choosing the right things for children to learn, then actually it is the decision of the individual teacher or team in terms of how best you know, what pedagogical strategy or approach to use to ensure that children learn that in the best possible way so that they know, they remember it and that they enjoy their experience. Of course, we know there are some kinds of ’best bets’ aren't there. So depending on what it is you want children to learn, we all know that there are better ways of doing some things than than others. But actually, there are still choices. And ultimately, as an inspector, I'll be interested in the choices that the different schools and teachers and leaders have made, and having a conversation around why they've decided to do it that way versus another. That doesn't mean I'm coming with a notion in the back of my head of how it should be done, and that's what I'm holding you against. And I think that's often what people think we do do. Okay, I'm coming in knowing that, you know, x has to be taught in a particular way, when actually it is about a conversation. However, you know, I will be kind of remiss of me not to say, you know, there are some things that you do have to teach, and you have to teach in some form of a direct way. So, I'm talking about reading, particularly at this point in time, you will not learn to read through a play based approach, you can potentially practice your reading through a play based approach, but in terms of actually learning, you know, the letters and the sound correspondences that just has to be taught in in some way. And again, it's coming back to a comment I made earlier around the role of parents because I think none of us would expect children to kind of just pick up through play, you know, their colours, or their numbers,  or shapes. But we actually teach that by kind of pointing things out on a on a walk through the park or wherever, when we're in the car, we say, oh, look with the sign, you know, the circle, the sign’s a circle, or it's a triangle. That’s teaching, that’s direct teaching, because we are seeing how have you noticed that that is a…? Insert the insert the right vocabulary. So I think it comes back to the debate about teaching versus play. And depending on where you are on the school, and a hierarchy, or certainly as we progress up through school, what balance you have between the two, but it is a tension. And it's one that we're hoping to get underneath a little bit more as an organisation over the autumn term, particularly that that transition from reception into year one.

 

Mark

Just wanted to come back a bit to something that Helen touched on around the work of the sector during the pandemic, which was obviously hugely challenging time and some great work was done. And at the time, we did some, some background work. We weren’t out inspecting, but we were doing some research work on what was going on in the sector. And certainly looking at early years. One of the big things that we were picking up on was the impact on on socialisation and the fact that obviously, children were were cooped up at home, and they weren't interacting with people, any people really other outside of their immediate family in the way that they might otherwise do. Obviously, we're a little bit down the road now. And I guess there are different new cohorts of children coming through who aren’t as, who weren't around, so weren’t affected in quite the same way. So I wonder if you’d talk a bit about where we are now in terms of that kind of COVID legacy, but also what you think the sector learnt from from from that time?

 

Helen

The whole pandemic for our members, about 15,000 members, majority of which are childminders, but practitioners across the sector. It was a dreadful time, not only personally for them, but for the children that they care about so much. It was a period of firefighting and survival. And I think we just we've not even begun to understand that post traumatic reaction to that. And I don't think that's an exaggeration. The other thing - I mean this is about the practitioners rather than the children but that's it really underlying the sense that they feel undervalued and under acknowledged so while you're clapping on doorsteps for you know health practitioners, etc, etc. They felt that they were always last to be considered whether it’s protection or financial support, etc, etc. That will have an effect on on the service they provide because they're exhausted I'm sure you can talk about it more directly. Scared, still getting on the bus every day to go to work, not able to wear protection in the workplace because obviously working with young children, yeah, and scared for their families at home. So, you know, really, really tough experience and a sense that it's not been acknowledged. And although we do have some initiatives within the stronger practice hubs, etc, not really been fully acknowledged the role that they played through the crisis and I hope it gets picked up in the inquiry, actually, I have raised this. And the children we know, this is anecdotal, we've not got kind of in depth data on this. But we know from our members that children are really … the ones that are born during the pandemic, only seeing, like you say, Mark, one or two adults, if that, in their own home, are now going into settings and starting that journey. And we're noticing huge differences in their, in their attachment issues, etc. Now, I'll hand over to Molly, because I'm sure she's got much more direct experience with that.

 

Molly

And I think I'll start with the children who, who were in settings during the pandemic, and talking about their journey. So as part of my role of Ark Start, I work with Ark schools, which has many, many schools in London, Birmingham, Portsmouth, and Hastings. And we are watching those cohorts going through school. And what's really standing out is that lack of time and support to develop those primaries of learning that are social communication. So we're not just talking about vocabulary, but we're talking about how you can use vocabulary to express yourself well and thoughtfully and kindly, empathy and prosocial behaviour, that regulatory skills around their executive functions, they still haven't been able to close those gaps. So those cohorts are going through and finding changes in routine, they're finding transitions, and they're finding, you know, the expectations put on them to be incredibly difficult. And I don't think we can undervalue how that stress, stress fills your body with cortisol. So when you're stressed, you actually learn less. So they are under stress with delays, and learning less making less progress because of that. So you can you can really see in those cohorts who had such a disjointed beginning of early education experience, how much that that has affected them going through the school. And really with those cohorts, the lessons learned is - don't rush through those primaries of learning. Because those specific areas of learning come when you are secure in those primes when you're secure in your well being. You know, you can use the Leuven scales to really track whether it's a child - and a grown up - is feeling happy, safe, secure, able to explore. And until we've got high levels of well being, high levels of involvement, and you know, that ability to live within either you know, your family home, your wider setting, in the park with friends, nursery, or you know, your reception class, sharing your space, sharing your resources, sharing your time, you know, you really aren’t able to build on that learning to become a fluent reader. And I think we've been able to use that learning in the nurseries and in the schools to really drive what we know, is important in our early education, so that by the time our children are in school, we know that they've got all of the knowledge and skills that they need to not just be ready, but to be ready to thrive.

 

Lee
The beauty of an inspection framework that focuses on curriculum is that actually it gives permission to kind of slow down the progress to whatever it is that you have planned. So that, you know circumstances, such as a pandemic, and let's hope we don't go through another one anytime soon. It gives us the permission to practitioners to say well actually, this is why our curriculum used to look like but this is what it needs to look like now, or actually, it's the same curriculum, but we need to over emphasise these bits of it, or we need to slow down our progress through these elements of it. As Molly said, you know that the prime areas, it's it's trying to reassure people that we do not have a rigid set view of what the curriculum should be other than the educational programmes in the EYFS. But actually, it's an interest in why you're doing it that way. Why are you spending more time on this than that. And again, increasingly, given the context that we're working in, that's because we do know, children are you know, they have particular delays more so than in the past. So, again, as always, my job in terms of in terms of Ofsted is to reassure people that, you know, from from our perspective, don't feel that we're expecting anything in particular, other than the minimum expectations that are set out in the EYFS.  There is still a long way to go for lots of children, you know, this isn't, this isn't something that can be fixed within what, a month, a year, two years plus, this is something that's gonna take a long time to work through, particularly when the very youngest children have missed out on some important developmental milestones. Because until you add those, it's impossible to you know, it's like building on sand isn't it? It’s impossible to kind of build something from that point until it's until those elements are secure. We've never had a strategic priority that is that is focused just on one particular age group. But we do now and obviously our strategy will last us from from kind of now up to 2027. And it's not just about I suppose curriculum, we are looking at everything that we think can contribute to that best start in life. So of course, we are interested in how our practitioners are trained in the first place. So I'm working with my further education and skills colleagues about what are the qualifications like in colleges so that we have the you know, the best possible trainees and the best possible future practitioners and managers and leaders of the future.

 

Shreena

Thanks very much to everyone for joining us for a really interesting podcast, thank you to Molly, thank you to Helen, our very own Mark and Lee, and see you another time.

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